Ad Gloriam Dei

"Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God." - 1 Corintians 10:31

"Let us pursue the things which make for peace and those by which one may edify another"- Romans 14:19

"As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend." - Proverbs 27:17

Saturday, August 09, 2008

Gay Day for California Schools

Please pray against the evil legislation that has been passed by the Californian Leglislature to have a Gay Day every year in all government schools. See here. Homosexual fanaticism knows no bounds! (I wonder when Christian family day is?)

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18 Comments:

Blogger Timothy said...

Hi Tim,
Just a question off topic to see if I'm missing something. As an exclusive psalmist in singing, does this mean that you can never sing about Christ, directly from the NT. It seems that, given your position, or as I understand, you could never really sing about Christ is that is indeed what you hold to.

Just curious

Saturday, August 09, 2008 7:10:00 pm  
Blogger Timothy Davis said...

Tim,

As with the Apostles, early Church, and historic Presbyterians, Baptists and Congregationalists, we sing about Christ from the Psalms.

A lot of the NT quotes concerning Christ come from the Psalms. Take for example the historic group of Messianic Psalms: Psalms 2, 8, 22, 24, 27, 34, 104 and 110 (although Christ is found all over the place - see Spurgeon's Treasury of David).

What you really need to read is Michael Bushell's The Songs of Zion, where he starts with "The Sufficiency and Propriety of the Psalter". However, this is currently out of print and is being extensively revised.

See here for now.

Saturday, August 09, 2008 9:21:00 pm  
Blogger Timothy Davis said...

How much more could you enter in a contemplation of Christ's suffering than to sing Psalm 22?

As I said, there is much more than the Messianic Psalms. Take Psalm 23, when we contemplate Him as our Good Shepherd.

Saturday, August 09, 2008 9:24:00 pm  
Blogger Timothy said...

Hi Tim,
Thanks for getting back with me. That does help me see how you deal with it, but it seems like you are still only singing of the shadow of the reality, when we are given so much more about Christ in the NT, that isn't covered in any detail in the Psalter.

I do appreciate it.
Blessings

Saturday, August 09, 2008 9:34:00 pm  
Blogger Timothy Davis said...

What we must determine is not what we subjectively think we should be singing, but looking at God's Word to find out what He has asked us to sing. God has not asked us to make-up our own composures and sing them.

There is no evidence in the NT of believers singing anything but Psalms, and no evidence in the Early Church either. We have much literature from that period. Why is there no hymnal? Why is there so much mentioning of Psalm-singing, but not of hymns? Why did Diocletian burn so many Bibles and Psalters, but no hymnals?

It seems that they, like Reformed and Presbyterian Christians of the Reformation, and modern exclusive Psalm-singers were satisfied with God's gracious provision, and didn't need to replace it with man-made usurpations. We usurp God's rightful place, when we add to His worship what He has not appointed.

Saturday, August 09, 2008 10:49:00 pm  
Blogger Timothy Davis said...

P.S. I understand where you're coming from. I thought the same myself. In fact, I thought Exclusive Psalmists were Pharisaical.

Saturday, August 09, 2008 10:50:00 pm  
Blogger Timothy Davis said...

By the way, when the NT talks about shadows, it only refers to the ceremonial law which no longer applies, not the Psalms.

"For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect." (Heb. 10:1)

The OT believers may not have understood the Psalms as well as we do, because of our NT revelation and knowledge of the Messiah. To us, the Psalms have even more relevance, because we know the Christ who these Psalms speak of.

Sunday, August 10, 2008 3:51:00 pm  
Blogger Mary said...

Hi, Timothy! I just wanted to add that since coming to believe in singing the psalms exclusively, they seem to satisfy my spiritual needs so much better than the hymns did. I appreciate the best of the hymns as good Christian poetry, but to me the psalms, the very word of God, have a power and beauty and profoundness not attained to by hymns.

Initially when I first considered exclusive psalmody in college, it was hard to imagine giving up hymns as there was so many I loved! But the more I sang the psalms (from the RPCNA psalter which the church in Lynchburg began using in addition to the Trinity hymnal) the more I liked singing them until I preferred them over hymns! This really helped me emotionally in my quest.

I also started noticing theological errors in some hymns, so stopped singing ones I wasn't sure about, but never had to worry when I sang a psalm as it was inspired by God himself!

But I understand your question about Christ in the Psalms; it's one of the points I had to think most about in coming (slowly!) to believe in exclusive psalmody (a journey which was almost completed before even meeting Tim!!). I came to realize two things regarding this point: I had to sing what God wants me to sing, trusting Him as to the content; and the psalms fulfilled everything I needed anyway. It's really amazing how Christ is so alive in the Psalms, in so many ways, that I truly never feel anything lacking! :)

God bless!
Mary

Sunday, August 10, 2008 4:21:00 pm  
Blogger Timothy Davis said...

I would add that, in my opinion, the RPCNA Psalter is better than the Trinity Psalter (and the new RPCI Psalter is better again!). I understand that the RPCNA are in the midst of a revision of theirs at the moment.

Sunday, August 10, 2008 4:24:00 pm  
Blogger Timothy said...

Hi Tim,
Thanks for the good information. I have to admit, it is compelling, but after speaking on it Sunday night, I don't get the impression we would be moving in the direction of the exclusive psalmist.

I hope you don't mind, but I read one of your posts, and said that you made some very good points, but then went on to discuss Colossians 3... wherein, both elders in my congregation said that, instead of saying psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, it is more like, psalms, psalms and psalms. :)

If we go to exclusive psalmody, they will have to lead the way!

My pet peeve is more for weekly communion...
Again, thanks for the help.

Tuesday, August 12, 2008 9:05:00 pm  
Blogger Timothy Davis said...

Tim,

I must say, we didn't quite expect you'd be discussing this at session. (You'll have to excuse us for such assumptions. ;)

What post were you referring to?

Are you convinced of Exclusive Psalmody, or was there another reason for discussing it with your elders?

Assuming that "both elders" refers to the two Eds, it is disappointing that an author of a book on the Covenanters and someone who has close relations who hold the historic Presbyterian position should appear to have approached this issue so little seriousness and study to come out with a poor statement like that.

Have you studied any books on the subject of Ex-P?

I'll probably scan G.I. Williamson's comments on the relevant texts and post it.

Thursday, August 14, 2008 9:06:00 pm  
Blogger Timothy said...

Hi Tim,
No, it wasn't in the session, but in my Sunday night sermon. It's much more casual than Sunday morning, and it became sort of an open discussion.

Am I convinced of Ex-P? Not 100 percent. You have made some compelling arguments for Ex-P.

Have I read any books on it? No I haven't and don't plan to for a while. I have other fish to fry right now with this congregation. As I said before, my burning issue for worship is weekly communion. So that is where my focus is until it becomes clear that weekly communion either is adopted, or not a possibility given the leadership and congregation.

I should not have said both my elders. I should have said, "two elders." One is Ed Moore, the other is a retired PCA minister who was with us that night.

Please don't make any assumptions about Ed M. He has given the topic a lot of though and leans towards the position of Ex-P... but doesn't press it. The man is a gold mine of knowledge and wisdom when it comes to the Covenanters and church history. I hope I didn't misrepresent him... which is probably more the case than him giving little thought concerning this issue.

The reason for the questions to you was simply to understand

Thursday, August 14, 2008 10:54:00 pm  
Blogger Timothy said...

The reasons for some of the questions to you was simply to understand your position more clearly. It was very helpful. My sermon series on Sunday nights is simply done to answer some of the "Why's?" of worship, i.e., Why DO we sing the psalms, why does the pastor wear a robe, etc.

I'm trying to lay the ground work for those who may come from a Baptist back ground and wonder why we do the things we do.

Hope this helps.

Thursday, August 14, 2008 10:56:00 pm  
Blogger Timothy Davis said...

Tim,

What you said about Ed M. makes a lot of sense. His studies and his library must inevitably lead him to examine the historic Presbyterian position with a bit more study.(Hence my use of the word "appear".)

What was the post that you read out?

You can still have a read of G.I. How much can a man read on weekly communion? ;)

What are the areas where you have issues with the Ex-P position? In my experience, (after the old aren't the "hymns" in Ephesians and Colossians songs outside of the Book entitled "Psalms") the big issue is about sufficiency.

Friday, August 15, 2008 7:02:00 am  
Blogger vatbadges said...

is there some kind of ex-p recordings you know of i can download for my ipod?

Friday, March 06, 2009 1:20:00 am  
Blogger Timothy Davis said...

Vat Badges,

Sorry that I haven't got back until now. Work plus problems with our phone line and internet have kept me away from home e-mail.

I assume you mean people singing Psalms? I don't know of any, but you could get some CDs and rip them onto you PC.

As for the theology of e-p, try here

Sunday, March 15, 2009 3:40:00 pm  
OpenID jpsoucy said...

I agree that having a day specifically for homosexuals is unnecessary, but including sexual eduction regarding homosexuality is completely appropriate in a society where one in ten people may be homosexual.

The bigotry must stop.

Sunday, April 19, 2009 7:43:00 pm  
Blogger Timothy Davis said...

JP,

If 1 in 10 members of society were Nazi, would it be 'appropriate' to have Anti-Semitic lessons? (Not to compare homosexuals with the Nazis, of course.)

The big question is: what is right and wrong? Is societal consensus the basis of right and wrong? If so, then would the Holocaust stop being evil, if society decides that it is good?

My opposition to homosexuality is not based on bigotry, but on what I am convinced is the Word of God.

Man and woman are designed for each other (in every way), as are their sexual organs. Homosexuality is against physical nature (although not man's fallen nature), e.g. the anus is designed for waste disposal, not sex.

I would add that all men are sinners, not just homosexuals, and that many of the early Christians were reformed homosexuals:

"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God." (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)

"Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness." (Romans 6:16-18)

"And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." (John 8:32)

Tuesday, April 21, 2009 6:28:00 pm  

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